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Brake Problems

6K views 38 replies 9 participants last post by  Big Daddy D. 
#1 ·
I'm wondering if anyone else has had this issue or heard of it. I did a quick google search but haven't found anything yet.

This has happened to me 5 times in total now...three in the last three days. I go to back out of my driveway, and while moving in reverse, I get about 30 feet and the brake pedal goes rock hard. Today was the worst as I only got about 15 feet before it went hard. And yesterday when it happened, I felt a grinding noise, which sounded/felt like the ABS had kicked in.

So clearly I'm losing the vacuum assist while reversing...but once it happens and I go forward, stopping effort is fine. I only seems to happen once a day, usually in the morning.
 
#3 ·
haha. :)

I do have to say that the brakes actually do work very well (in the forward driving position). It stops very well for a 6000+ vehicle. And the wear on the brakes has been excellent too. When I had them checked after one year of service, they still had 80% life left.
 
#5 ·
Are they drums on the rear? If so then thats why. Get your foot off the brake and on the throttle. Anyone who doesn't stop for you has no respect for Fords and deserves to get hit.
 
#6 ·
Seems like Ford always has an issue with brakes no matter what generation of F 150 when you do a search LOL. I personally.....(knock on wood)..... have never expirienced any brake issues with any of my Fords that i have had.
 
#7 ·
3.5 turbo? They have an aux vacuum pump underneath the l/front headlamp assy. I have done only one which took a dump on its own, and I have done two others on trucks with collision damage.

The pump cycles on and off via a command from the ABS module, which in turn monitors the BOO switch and the booster vacuum switch. Testing is easy for a dealer tech - there is an output state control PID for the pump using IDS. Command it on and check for VBatt - ground is virtually straight to the frame.

Common symptom for a bad pump is a hard pedal (especially for the first 30 seconds after start up) and that 'abs' sensation you're complaining of.
 
#10 ·
Well, apparently it falls under TSB 11-10-24. Don't know if the pump is defect yet as I haven't seen the invoice, but they are replacing my brake pads. Kinda a shame this happened now and not in another year, cause there's probably at least 60% pad life left. Oh well.

TSB 11-10-24

10/27/11

HARD BRAKE PEDAL FEEL DURING NORMAL BRAKING

FORD:
2011 F-150

ISSUE
Some 2011 F-150 vehicles built on or before 8/23/2011 may exhibit a hard brake pedal feel during normal braking with no reduction in braking effectiveness and no brake warning indicators or diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) present.

ACTION
Follow the service procedure to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

1. Perform brake booster component test procedure. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 206-00. Does brake booster operate correctly?

a. Yes - proceed to Step 2.

b. No - do not continue with this article. Perform normal diagnostics. Refer to WSM, Section 206-00.


2. Is the vehicle equipped with a 3.5L gasoline turbocharged direct injection (GTDI) engine?

a. Yes - proceed to Step 3.

b. No - proceed to Step 6.


3. Check brake vacuum pump operation.

a. Ignition switch on and engine off.

b. Exhaust all vacuum by applying brake pedal five (5) times.

c. Using IDS, enter diagnostic mode:

DataLogger - ABS Module.

d. Toggle vacuum pump (VAC_PMP) active command to turn the pump on for 30 seconds.


4. Does the brake vacuum pump run?

a. Yes - proceed to Step 5.

b. No - do not continue with this article. Refer to WSM, Section 206-09, pinpoint test T.


5. Does the brake booster provide brake assist?

a. Yes - proceed to Step 6.

b. No - perform normal diagnostics. Refer to WSM, Section 206-07.



The brake booster uses the engine for its primary vacuum supply. The brake vacuum pump helps to maintain vacuum supply when the engine is under boost conditions.

6. Reprogram the ABS module to the latest calibration using IDS release 75.04 and higher. This new calibration is not included in the VCM 2011.9 DVD. Calibration files may also be obtained at the website.

7. Replace the front brake pads. Refer to WSM, Section 206-03. It is important to follow the instruction sheet included in the brake pad kit for proper pad orientation.








Parts Block

WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT : Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME

111024A 2011 F150: Perform 0.9 Hr.
Diagnosis, Reprogram The
ABS Module And Replace
The Front Brake Pads

DEALER CODING
CONDITION
BASIC PART NO. CODE
2001 42
 
#13 ·
Well...looks like this isn't transparent. Driving a rental today cause Ford was unable to get this sorted out for me in time. The dealer called at 5:00pm yesterday and said that the repair hadn't started yet because they needed me to authorize the expense. Wha? They want to charge me for the new brake pads and the reflashing of the ABS module. I asked why I was being charged for this since...1) It's still within the 3year/60K warranty period...2) I paid for an extended warranty and the maintenance protection plan, of which includes free brake parts. So I challenged them on it and said if I have to pay for this, when my existing front pads have 60% life left on them, why do I need to change my pads then? And how does changing pads fix the problem with the hard pedal and ABS kicking in? They couldn't answer these questions!!! So they suggested I call the head office Ford Customer Service. So I did...and Ford Customer Service agreed with me, that I shouldn't have to pay for the parts. So they contacted the dealer for me. Turned out, it's the shop foreman that is refusing to allow this to be covered under warranty. He is going by the letter, in which the maintenance protection plan states that they will replace the parts under warranty with Motorcraft parts. However, the TSB says to replace the pads with Ford parts. This is the first I'm learning that there was a difference...I had always assumed they were one in the same. AND they say the ABS module reflash is not covered either...why is it that I can have the ECM and the Sync system reflashed under warranty, but the ABS module is not included?

So needless to say, got a lot of BS to sort out today. I ain't paying for crap...that's the stand I'm taking for now.
 
#16 ·
You need to get ahold of that guy on here that is a close personal friend of the President of Ford Canada, he'll get you fixed right up.

Just can't recall what his name is. I'm such a big dummy when it comes to names for some reason.

Frustrating if the Shop Foreman is choosing to be a dick, tough to tell if it's him, or he's just taking direction from the owner of the dealership.

Nice to hear Ford Canada heard you and reached out, hopefully they'll get on it.
 
#17 ·
Well... end of day and my truck is still at the dealership. The CSR is escalating the issue as they agree with me that I shouldn't be paying for the repair. I stopped in and talked to the shop foreman today. I understand his point, but this is not how to build a loyal customer base. I think it is sad that the opinions of the dealership and Ford Canada are on two sides of the fence here. I paid good money for the extended warranty and maintenance protection plan so there is no reason I should be out of pocket.

And for the record...I didn't realize who the shop foreman was until I met him today... he is in fact the same guy I got into an argument with before when I brought the truck in to have the sync system flashed. I brought in the TSB for it and said this describes my problem to a tee. He then continued to argue with me that this was not the problem I was having and that they just reset the module. He refused to do the flash. I told him that wouldn't fix it and sure enough two days later I was calling to make another appointment. So my history with resolving issues with this guy is not good.
 
#19 ·
It's funny how some dealers are a bunch of "A" holes! I agree, why should you pay when you got the warranty, and the maintenance protection plan. That should cover all basis, including laybour!
I myself have never had any issues, or questions asked to me when i wanted things done under warranty, so reading posts like this blows me a way!
 
#25 ·
So Ford Canada called me late Friday afternoon to inform me that they would not be covering the brakes or the ABS module reflash... all because the brake pads that Ford required in the TSB were not the Motorcraft ones that my MPP covers. She gave me the BS line about how most customers don't understand that the warranty doesn't cover everything, and yada yada yada.

So I told her one of the biggest reasons why I got the plan was because brakes, and a bunch of other hardware, was included. Knowing that I would need to replace these things over the 5-6 years that the warranty covered, it seemed like a good deal. She had openly said that brakes were "normally" covered but because the TSB required these different ones that it was outside of the normal 12 month 20,000KM brake warranty. She then proceeded to tell me that really the MPP was only meant for oil changes and regular maintenance items and was not really meant to be comprehensive.....I F**KING LOST IT at this point.

I said there was no flipping way that I would have spent several thousands of dollars on a plan if oil changes was all that was covered. I said how is it the customer's fault that Ford went and changed the part numbers...I paid for a warranty that covered brakes and I don't give a rat's ass what part number it is as long as they are Ford approved brakes. I then demanded that they refund all the money for the MPP since they were renagging on the deal. She fell silent for about 2 minutes....and then put me on hold. When she came back on, she said she would have to call me back.

In the meantime, I had already started to head over to the dealership with the intention of speaking to the general manager of the dealership. Before I got a chance, Ford Canada had called back to inform me that ABS module was still not going to be covered, but that new brake pads would. I then got intercepted by the service manager before I could get to the general manager.

So looks like it should get fixed up today. I'm still not happy about having to pay for the ABS module reflash though, but it's a quarter of the cost I would have had to pay had I not push back on them.

Couple things though...I've had the rental vehicle for 7 days now. Now I'm sure they get a corporate volume discount from Budget Rental, but retail for the cost of the van according the the website for the 7 days is $300. Had the dealership just agreed on this from the beginning, this would have basically saved the cost of the pads by now.

Secondly, I can't help but think they have glazed over some sort of customer liability. If I didn't agree with paying for the brakes, they were willing to let me leave with the truck, even though they acknowledged the fact that the brakes were not working right, and that they had a fix for a flaw in the ABS programming.

BTW....EASTGATE FORD! ...that's all I'm saying.
 
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